Giant and Giant-like Astronaut Spacemen - Part IV - Copy Type 'C2' - Woolbro ++

So to the commonest version/variant of Giant clone, while now priced as (and usually described as-) Giant on evilBay, these used to be easy to find in under-table rummage boxes at shows and over the years I've picked up a reasonable number of them in the four main colours shown here, with silver outnumbering the other considerably - I've probably got more silver than all the others put together?

The same ten poses as the previous C1's, but smaller and less detailed, the 'bazooka' man can - again - suffer from distortion, but not always and not as consistently as the C1 fellow, this might point at the same factory for both, but is more likely down to the thickness of the sculpt at that point in both sets?

A comparison between the first-aider and the O/C, you can see they are separate poses, with the officer having a questing little-old-lady stance, while the medic is reaching more forcefully. His chest detailing is also better as he's been recut from new, rather than pantographed, same for his head/helmet.

C2's are probably copies of one of the other two sets (C1 or - less likely - C3) and show it, he doesn't though, he's altogether a fresher sculpt.

My favourites dukeing asteroid e asteroid, not the commonest, but I've found them two or three times over the years and seen them a few other times on feebleBay, so they were quite numerous sometime (probably in the Woolbro sets - see below)?

Gold turn-up in about the same quantities, while the red-chap is the only one I've got! Possibility he's a Gum-ball machine capsule prize/Christmas cracker type thing, but I suspect he's from the US 'comic offer' sets (see below), where half the contents were this colour, the other half the common silver?

I have someone to thank for the silver-troop shot - Theo van der Werden, I think? Cheers Theo - it all gets used eventually! And the gold patrol are advancing up a Cane trench!

Base mark is similar to the C1's, but much fainter and a bit smaller (still a DIN font; 'HONGKONG') than the C1's, with no dimples, holes or double-stampings, the sepia image is me trying to show you that a gloss-red figure inches from the camera-flash has the same marking! There is a gap between the two words, but it's so thin I've given them the one-word mark.

Their numerousness is down to the fact that they were carried by various people in various sets, mostly generics in independent corner stores and newsagents, but at least one branded supplier Woolbro (left), where they carried the same '445' code as the other sets in the line (Fort Cheyenne, Mobile Task Force and Roman Fortress). Age-wise they are probably newest on the left (Woolbro mid-1970's) and oldest on the right; a generic from the late 1960's.

The two later sets both come with a copy ofMattel's Major Matt Mason space walker (also nicked by Eldon's Billy Blastoff) and a rocket which I think is taken from MPC (? Someone like that!), but which has had a safety 'bulb' added to save eyes . . . it was carnage in the earlier 1960's blinded kids as far as the still-sighted could see!

On the subject of Blast Off (at least two board-games, a play-set and a book, the book titled in homage to all the other 'Blast Off's!), Five Star, Helen of Toy and others carried a set (in two sizes - 117 and 196 pieces) under the same Blast Off moniker, which I suspect probably contained these C2 figures (in the absence of other better candidates) which would have included my red figure - on one side - with yet more silver figures, but this is still conjecture? The two brands here are clearly the same outfit working from the same address.

Some sources claim Giant figures were in the sets, but without empirical evidence, and while the sets are very rare, so is my red example! As the Blast Off sets were red and silver, and given some will claim everything Hong Kong and small scale is "original Giant", I suspect the truth is that these common figures were the ones used. Many thanks to Peter Evan's for one of the comic pages.

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But is it Giant

No! The truth is that four sets of astronaut/spaceman tools were being used, probably all within months of Giant's product appearing, at around the same time (1961/2) through to about 1974 (for these C2's), although these may have been issued a little later than both the C1 and C3 clones. There is however no Giant stuff in this post.

Giant and Giant-like Astronaut Spacemen - Part III - Copy Type 'C1'

I'm not 100% convinced these were the first copies, but they might be, however they are the closes to the Giant figures so they get the nominal preeminent title in the copy-numbering, while the C2 (next post, almost certainly came from these) but I stress - as always - this is my numbering system, and means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

They are closest to Giant's in sculpting/detail as well as size, although there is a drop-off in etched surface-detail and the main difference is the addition of a tenth figure, who is not a conversion of the officer/pistol chap, but is clearly based on him, having a straighter back though and different arms/legs, he's the unit Medic with a first-aid kit - early exploits by Giant's own Space Men troops clearly threw-up a high rate of light casualties! We will look more closely at him in the next post.

The marking is a large HONG KONG, with two of the figures further possessing a distinct mould release-pin mark/dimple near the center of the base. The 'bazooka' guy is usually seriously deformed like this example, too-rapid removal from the tool is the likely cause?

This is a full-colour image! I posed them with a selection of monochromatic accessories/background sheet-materials! I have yet to identify these as having any sets/packaging, but they must have (unless they were in small unmarked bags included in Christmas crackers, crane-machines, capsules etc...?), so they should turn-up one day . . . I hope!

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But is it Giant?

No, nothing here is Giant production, nor was it issued by or branded to Giant, or produced for Giant.

Giant and Giant-like Astronaut Spacemen - Part II - Giant Originals

So, to the figures issued by Giant in the early to mid-1960's, the same figures would have been found in The Toy House or World Toy House (same firm) packaging. Figures are marginally the largest at a tad over 21mm and a mean/average, and also the best sculpted, these can paint-up well, but are scarce, so better to use commoner copies for that sort of thing!

The boards I used t shot these have left a bit of a shock on the eye, vis-à-vis the base-marks, but if you enlarge the images (right-click and 'open in new tab', or window, then left-click the image if a plus-sign is showing) you'll see they are clear enough.

This is what I call the command poses, four-of-nine, with detector man (it's sci-fi he could be detecting anything, not necessarily mines!), a spotter with binoculars, a squad/section signaller/runner and the O/C - Officer Commanding; we know that's who he is as he's the only one with a side-arm . . . or ray-pistol!

The squad troopers, armed with various lengths of space-rifle and a recoilless, tube-launched weapon, undoubtedly capable of some cosmic devastation on an epic scale! Giant originals are all clearly marked with the mark more associated with the later retail production (black and silver knights, Mongols &etc.), including the spurious ⓟ-mark! - "GIANT ⓟ MADE IN HONG KONG"

Someone sent me this about ten-years ago, maybe twelve (2007/8?) and I can't find the eMail to thank them, they are - sadly - only empty cards, but I think we can tell they would have contained - from the left; a random (of three designs) space-tank and a handful (20-odd?) of figures [3907 Space Patrol], a larger single blister of (40/50-odd?) figures [Space Men], at least two tanks, with the missile-launch mechanism of a third, along with a sample of figures and possibly one of two things yet to be identified (?) [5933 Space Brigade] and finally; one of the big rocket-ships with a dozen or so figures [5932 Space Launch].

Not clear in this low-res shot is that the Space Launch set has an integral sunken tray like the Viking longship sets, and later simpler blister-packed sets existed including another Space Men and a Space Explorer set.

I don't have the tanks or rockets yet, so until I track them down, which I will, here are a couple of past feeBay lots with two of them, they all have the same twin missile-launcher as a plug-in and the same dodgy running-gear as the WWII tanks, but three different superstructure/bodies of which there are two seen here

Compared with the 23mm'ish Airfix Astronauts, you can see the diminutive size of Giant's figures, the bino's guy looks smaller-still because he's bending forward slightly and foreshortening has 'dwarfed' him!

This image (left) is now on 'Worthpoint' except theirs is a fuzzy thumbnail you have to sign-up to see properly (which I'm sure involves money or endless spam, probably both!), but the eBay original can still be found at a higher resolution, it came in an opposite colour-way (blues for reds and vise-versa) and while being now some sixty years of age, bears a remarkable resemblance to Elon Musk's SpaceX Starship 'Heavy Lifter' (main image), which is designed to land on its tail fins like all those 1950's pulp-cover artwork and kids comic vessels!

Vintage and modern as the current HexBug Nano - Nano Space/Nanobot's space ship disgorges a troop of Giant's intrepid finest to  . . . err . . . check something out! Please note; There were no gold astronauts from/issued by Giant

I think I've bored you with this before, but Giant's figures are problematical for me with what passes for OCD in an Aspergic; namely they are armed, so should be 'Spacemen', but they are clearly wearing NASA-era spacesuits which makes them 'Astronauts' . . . doh! And hence the titles of this series 'Astronaut Spacemen'! Although Giant get round the quandary (it's real!) by using the separate words 'Space Men' across the whole line - not 'spacemen'.

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But is it Giant

Yes! Apart from the obvious prop in the last shot, the four Airfix and most of the figures in the filtered first image, this IS the Giant Plastic Corp of New York & Hong Kong issued product.

Giant and Giant-like Astronaut Spacemen - Part I - Introduction

So, a five part overview of Giant's spacemen and the more numerous clones to be found out there, and more by accident than design I ended-up with an image which was so useful, I've used it - with masking - on every subsequent post, but we can see it here in its entirety!

First though, this is an idea of the size of the sample I've been working from, these were actually the ones in storage, and others were here, while a few more have come in recently, but you can see that the main 'types' we will be looking at (Giant, C1, C2 and C3) are all represented in largish quantities except the Giant originals (bottom-right, nearly empty pack) which were mostly here already! Silver predominates, but as the 'C2' we also get gold, scarlet and metallic blue & maroon figures, while . . . hold on! This is all for the next image;

Right . . . Silver plastic predominates, but the C2's were also done as gold, scarlet (not shown here, but peeking in the first image - above)) and metallic blue & maroon figures, while as C3 we sometimes find painted figures, a finish which may be of factory origin.

The C1 may not be the first copy, but is the best so earned it's moniker by dint of being closest to Giant's issues, while the C2 was by far and away the commonest, and the C3 is a separate issue, possibly (and only possibly) copied from the C2's as a third-generation piracy, on their post I will look at this further.

The Enemy; as far as I know there were no instances, either as Giant or otherwise, of the two being issued together, or established/flagged as protagonists, the one line being 'stand alone' spacemen, the other 'stand alone' aliens, but they would likely - in Giant's case, and probably as The Toy House - have been hanging next to each other on the rack, so the link (as belligerents/foils to each other) is there.

I don't have a Giant set yet, so this toy house one will have to do, but we looked at them all recently here;

Giant Originals
Toy House Issue
Dodgy Copies

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But is it Giant?

The figures in the bottom right-hand bag of the first image and the figure (3 angles) in the left-hand column of the second image are Giant product, everything else (99%) is not. The third image is dealt with on the relevant post (second link above).

'Wavymane' - The Original, Hong Kong Made, Hollow Horse?

So, I covered a couple of the easier horses at the start of this Blog, now it's time for one of the hardest, not as many variations as the Giant horses ('Smoothie' and 'Mexican'), but enough variants, and probably the original of all the hollow-horses, certainly the most numerous, by country-miles.

This is it, the horse I dubbed Wavymane, because I'm a simple chap and it has a wave in its mane, a curl - if you like - or, with the lighting on this shot, a bit of a loop, clearly visible on the right-hand horse's mane, about half way down the neck.

I was going to highlight it with an arrow, but some of you may decide to use these close-ups to build a ready-reckoner guide, so I thought I'd keep them clean!

My total sample, as of April 2016, there has been some growth, with a fair few in the TBS box, but I don't buy the quantities I used to when I was first trying to sort and annotate the 20+ main [named] types and 100+ variations, which is mostly now complete as an exercise.

We'll be visiting each sub-type in its own post here and we'll look at their marks when we do so. This is just a guide to what I have been working with/from, but there are a few points to note;

Type 1's are best quality, with a chalky (but not brittle) look, good musculature to the horses and subdued, but rich colours to the riders, with no accessories yet tied to them, they are definitely the oldest, may be the first HK horse of this HO/OO-compatible model, and - due to that age - are less numerous.

Type 2's introduce both new marks and a glossier plastic for both horses and riders, the carded set seen is 'theirs' as are some generic pocket-money bags. They are commoner than the 1's, but as clean 'Early' samples not much more numerous.

As Type 2 Late however, they are the commonest Hong Kong hollow-horse out there, there are thousands of horses in the box and the riders fill two large bags, with sets from A Pocket Money Toy (H - 502, a phantom brand?) and Larami (who also carried other Hong Kong hollow-horses, at other times, in the same packaging - so almost certainly bought-in, probably from third-party.

The Type 3 is the cake-decoration candle-holder version, and the numbering is purely arbitary, but was placed before the 4's, as it would have been an early application of the moulding, contiguous with the 2's if not originally the 1's, it depends on who had the idea first (decoration buyers, or horse seller) and how soon they arranged contracts, new tooling and deliveries of first orders!

While Type 4 covers all the late production which includes exceptions to rules, bought-in accessories, different riders or foot figures &etc. Some of these may still be in stores somewhere, but probably not.

Large sets from the Type 2 ('Empire Made' left) and Type 4 (YF, right) eras; The 2 has both ex-Giant foot figures and an ex-Giant fort without the bunk-house, but the riders are all Wavymane, while the 4 has new riders (ex-Timpo poses) and new foot figures.

US readers should note that while I don't have an MPC set yet, I've seen enough on evilBay to know they are within the Type 4 oeuvre, and specifically are packaging-graphic variations of the Blue-Box lookie-likey YF blister-card seen here. The foot figures also being issued with truncated versions of the fort as seen in the previous image - all will be looked at properly in the Type 4 post/s.

Also it should be seen/noted that YF produced ex-Giant second version Knight sets (tool passing through to Archie McFee/Accoutrements and ultimately BuM), yet there is no ex-Giant content in this set - although everything above is described as Giant by unknowing or unethical sellers on that there interma'web thingy!

Wavymane is basically a straight copy of the Crescent 54mm horse, down-scaled to a 1:76th/72nd or HO/OO-compatible size. The horse is technically galloping, although at full gallop the horse only ever has one hoof firmly on the ground at any given moment. However it's important to note that the sculptors at Crescent went with three hoofs grounded; one (front right) coming in, one (front left) lifting and one momentarily firm - rear right.

You can see I have highlighted the wave with arrows here, it is carried over from Crescent donor to Hong Kong piracy, along with all other details of mane, tail, saddlery and halter/harness, the location hole being raised to receive studs higher-up the scaled down legs of the small-scale riders.

Britain's had gone with a two hoof down pose for less stability, but greater realism, the front going down, the rear lifting. To the right of the Britains is a recent (and still findable) larger scale version of the old small-scale Hong Kong hollow horse, with the tail from one ('Flicktail') and ex-Giant 'Smoothie' body, but fitted for a base.

Timpo followed Britains with the two-hoofs-down gait, and when I sat 'followed' check out the sculpting of the tail or the ulna (shoulder) and carpus (knee) of the front left leg!

So, to the contentious bit; the Giant horse is a copy of the Wavymane! It's smaller because whether pantograph or hand cut, it then got reduced as the fine musculature of the Crescent horse was smoothed-out! Hence 'Smoothie' but they retained enough of the saddlery details - specifically the funny little flaps of 'Front Skirt' and/or 'Fender' (yeah - I had to look all this stuff up!), for us to know the Wavymane came first, the Giant is second generation, but re-cut to quality . . . to begin with.

This is important for two reasons, one; it will annoy the Giant purists and if you are annoying a specific group of fan-people you are usually getting something right, and two; because all the subsequent horses can be either 2/3/4th generation from Wavymane, or 3/4/5th generation copies of Smoothie - which is why studying them is so hard. Add stand-alone's and other 1st generation copies and it's all very complicated, but it has to be got right . . . or ignored.

A couple more large-scale offerings from Hong Kong, one which is clearly the Crescent horse, but now seemingly the donor for the small-scale horses I call Spiky-mane and Flicktail as it's had more work done on both features, to hide the Crescent origins? The other a Britains/Timpo hybrid with Britains take-off base.

Three of the previous images scaled-together in Picasa for a full comparison. The Timpo looks bigger, but that's because A) it has a rider and B) I've lifted the image to fit it in the corner to match the bottom-left corner, for graphical purity!

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But is it Giant?

Obviously the two used in the comparisons are, but the Wavymane specifically and all the large scale ones in general; no. However, you will find Wavymane's with Giant product as bought-in 'mix-and-match' sets, they are post- or ex-Giant.

'Face' Bunkers and Barbed Wire - Giant and Others

This is not a perfect post, both the Dragons' Teeth and the third sub-piracy are absent, but by the end you will at least be able to pair-up most of your Giant and sub-Giant bunkers and barbed-wire, if you currently have them all in one tub/box/place!

But we start with the granddaddy which is Marx, specifically the Miniature Masterpieces accessory which was, itself, probably pantographed-down from the larger item found in the 54 and 60mm play sets.

And odd design; more knights helm than pill-box, but having something in common with some of the cheap iron or concrete 'sniper' posts used by various armies/nations since the end of the 19^th Century, except they are usually small one- or two-man things.

Hard polystyrene plastic and marked clearly with the full stamp, this one 'Hong Kong' but there may be 'Taiwan' versions out there?

Giant got a copy of the Marx unit out for their WWII sets, it's soft polyethylene plastic, a little smaller, a little less sharply finished, and there was barbed-wire (illustrated) and dragons' teeth (see below) to build a formidable defence-line from multiple sets.

A reminder that the that the P-in-a-circle mark; ⓟ, is internationally recognised as the symbol for phonographic recordings, not 'patent', 'protected', 'perfect' or even 'plastic'!

These would seem to be sub-piracies, and I have titled them C1 for 'copy, type one' (for the purpose of this post, you can title them whatever you like!) although it may be that the next lot ('C2') came first, but these are closer to the Giant version, just a poorer copy, less well-finished.

The arrows are pointing to large pin-release marks, which are more-like channels, filled with resin which has then been cut away with tin-snips or side-cutters, leaving still quite-pronounced protrusions.

These (C2) are poorer again, but differences in the overall design suggest parallel copying rather than liner, so they may predate the C1, but it will only be by a few months as the sets carrying them both are pretty contemporary - approximately 1966-68.

Also - or again; soft polyethylene plastic like the C1's and Giant's original copy.

The barbed-wire which accompanies the Marx-copy/Giant-clones; they are both copies of the giant version - which we looked at here - and a much finer piece than all the clones. It should be noted that while I am 100% on the tie-in between the C1's, with the C2 I have such a small sample of wire it cannot - yet - be taken as empirical, although checking with the Beach Head sets will sort them all out, more accurately, another day.

The four together, you can see that with the C2, there is a different profile to the soil the pill-box is set into, and while the surface is smoother (suggesting another pantographing) it is also a cleaner bunker sculpt than the lumpy C1, so one suspects that the C2 is a separate copy, independent of a evolution-line of cloning of the Marx/Giant donors.

There is another bunker design, which could be C3, or, a C2 if the brown ones are a stand-alone line/design, as it seems to be copied from the Marx-Giant-C1 evolutionary line, but the 'mouth' has been dropped and a 'side-door' arrangement added to the [defenders] left side (right side as we're looking at them here), they can be seen in the above links, but I can't find them, despite last shooting it in 2015, so they must be here somewhere!

Comparing the barbed-wire entanglements/fences, in the link to the Beach Head and other sets above, I noted that one of them ('D-Day Invasion') had Giant-marked barbed-wire, I'd better check to see if it has Giant bunkers as well, I suspect it did have?

While the additional strand (at the bottom of this shot) may go with the missing 'doorway' (C3) bunker, something else I'll have to check against those sealed sets! Note: double barbs on C1 and smaller barbs on C2 with the question-mark being closer to the Marx original but with four spans against the three of everyone else's.

A close-up of that forth type.

When I check the other question marks remaining above, I will return with a fuller article, and get these properly sorted. I have a shed-load somewhere as I was literally the only bloke in the UK hoovering them up at shows for years, where they were always in the junk trays, although kind people like Trevor Rudkin and John Begg saved lots for me over the years as well, so the above is just a taste, of what I had to hand, and is no guide to anything!

Basically they all follow the Airfix pattern of a 'hand' of five, linked to make a double row 2-3 ( ,',', ) and I think the Giant are the taller, with the clones getting smaller ones, which - like the barbed-wire - will probably be found to run to four obvious variants? However, all the clones are without the pyramid on the cap, which the Airfix ones wear.

In addition to the links above, this post covered the other examples in my 'master collection', and both posts linked-to owe a debt to James Opie, from who's collection several of them came.

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But is it Giant?

I set a rod for my own back with this footer-feature didn't I!

Yes, if it says so in the text, no if it doesn't and almost certainly no if it's product added to a generic set with a bunch of non-Giant product also present! Another way . . . everything in the second image is Giant, except when it's been supplied to someone else; everything else isn't Giant except where the Giant stuff is being compared with it - in images 6 and 7! There might be some Giant in the last image!

It'll be clearer when we return to them to clear-up the remaining question-marks.

Novelty Headquarters Inc., and Others - Space Alien Clones

We've already seen these as I only have the three examples and they have all been used in comparison-shots on the previous two posts! However, to get the boxes ticked, we'll have another look at them with a bit more info' and some theorising.

So these are they; it has taken all of my 40+ years collecting to get the three, which equates to one every fourteen-odd years! I fact they've all come in, in the last 30 years, so about once a decade, although, technically they aren't [or 'weren't'] rare once, as we'll see in a minute.

But the slow drip of them here in Albion points to them having been either the very cheap gum-ball machine capsule prizes (1p or 2p machines back in the day) or the budget Christmas cracker's - 1 per cracker, 1 cracker to every few boxes?

Mark is, as you can see, a small, crude 'HONG KONG', in semi-readable condition.

And they are copies, probably from crude re-moulding, hand-finished, rather than with a pantograph, simplification of the blue-guy's rifle, and the missing butt of the pink guy's, coupled with a marked reduction on size over the originals and loss of fine detail, suggest a crude method of copying? Especialy as they've then been given the same size bases as the Giant donors, something which would have been equally reduced by an off-set pantograph.

This has been on the PC since I got the one before the one before this, and I think it came from a defunct Blog or website, it may be off eBay (some early images were very poor) but it illustrates the point that in the 'States you could get a bag of 100+! For what, .25/35¢? And say 5-20 bags per outlet, 500 or 5,000 outlets . . . somewhere; a mountain of these has disappeared into thin air! As have the Giant originals!

Except we know they are in landfill! Ephemeral rack-toys, from the budget-end of a budget-genre, they were discarded, hoovered/vacuumed, lost in the garden or playground, down drains (there'll be a bunch of 'em in the Sargasso garbage patch!) and whatever was left, eventually went in the bin.

Another old crap image with some LB (Lik Be) robots rounding up the Novelty Headquarters Inc's invasion force!

Now, these are the same colours as those in the bag, not the same as mine, which may point to mine being a 2nd generation piracy, 3rd generation if you count the Giant ones. The US ones also seem to have retained a bit more of their stature, although the red one on the left has a poor weapon, so it's probably down to the base-mark, which I don't know, however I suspect two runs of the same tool.

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But is it Giant?

Neoooow! Not in a million-billion-squillion-gazillion-years Pal! Yer 'avin' a larf, in't 'cha!