Grandmother Stover's C3 Spacemen / Astronauts

Another brand to link to the lesser of the three copies of the Giant Spacemen here, with small packets from Grandmother Stover's one of the smaller (but like SSCO relatively common) cake decoration, pocket-money novelty and craft/doll's house accessory suppliers.

A small'ish set contents-wise helps explain why they are the harder to find, a lot would have been lost piecemeal over time, but these will turn-up from time to time, I haven't opened it as I have a reasonable number of loose ones, including the odd metallic-maroon painted ones!

You can see the distinctive circular marking for the C3, which is my numbering system, no need for anyone else to use it, but it helps get them in 'an' or 'some' order! There's about 12 figures, but they seem to be a good mix of poses, whether you actually got all ten with some extras, or a totally random pick is a moot point I may try to work out if I find a couple more samples!

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But is it Giant

As I said last time: these like the C1 and C2's are copies, clones, piracies . . . there's nothing Giant here, but we have the additional Grandmother Stover's for the archive!

Giant and Giant-like Vikings - Loose Examples

I realised we'd got through a Rack Toy Month over on the home Blog without posting anything here, and I usually manage to get something up here in RTM, so a bit late, here's a quick overview of the loose Vikings from the Giant Plastics Corp., of Hong Kong and New York.

We looked at the carded stuff years ago on the home Blog here, and will look at them again here when I've taken some new images of the cards which are currently in storage.

The ship, sans oars and anchor, just to give an idea of what it looks like, a simplified scale-down of the Aurora model-kit (reissued in the 1990's by Smer), which has been scaled at 1:64th (by hobbyists I think, the actual kit doesn't give a scale/size?), and which is here a nominal HO-gauge compatible or somewhere between 1:76th and 1:87th.

A recent one on evilBay with a blue sail and a couple of crew in situe, they are provided with small locating studs or spigots to keep them upright as the boat is rolled-about on the carpet or abused in the bath or fish-pond! Ulike the Giant Romans where all figures have the hole for the chariot spigot, here only the crew have a hole.

Each ship comes with a bag of accessories consisting of the crew - typically; one commander, one helmsman and four spearmen/sentries (but it can vary), an anchor, a steering oar (steer-board / starboard / stab'd), 16 shields and 14 rowing oars. The reason they are missing in the above shot is that I'm won't to open a mint pack!

The sample I'm working from is not great, they are among the harder to find of Giant's output, but not as rare as the backwoodsmen or early knights! Giant originals on the left, unmarked copies on the right, crew above, fighting 'troops' below. You can see from this unscientific sample that about 2/3rds of all the Vikings out there are actually knock-offs, not Giant!

The copies don't follow the Giant donors exactly, with the axe-man (red) being a composite of Giant's spearman (yellow)'s legs with new torso, sword and shield. While the copier didn't carry-over the spearman or Giant's axe-man, when they did their pirating.

An interesting and accidental yet serendipitous variation is found with the copy-set, where the ships commander can have a mild form of short-shot (incomplete moulding), resulting in his wind-blown cloak being reduced to a rod of plastic which resembles a sword scabbard on the right hip! Both the figures marked with asterisks.

It should also be noted that while the ship's crew are ex-Aurora, the fighting figures are original sculpts, although that's original with heavy influence from Crescent/Kellogg's knights and Hausser/Elastolin Anglo-Saxons!

Base marks; there is a marked difference between the fighters (above 'GIANT ⓟ MADE IN HONG KONG' in a typewriter/engineer's stamp font) and the crew (below 'GIANT ⓟ HONG KONG' in a DIN/sans-serif font) suggesting different tools, if nothing else, but as both were early and contemporaneous it only questions comments made elsewhere about using base marks to date these, all my carded sets are early, but these are 'late' marks! The copies are unmarked.

There were cavalry too, not something the annuls of Viking history are strong on, they must have had a few for farm work etc . . . or to sell to the Rus for cash! . . . but they weren't noted horsemen, being a maritime nation.

Certainly evidence - beyond the odd leader on a 'prestige' horse (which might be lashed to the mast or a deck shackle and fed from a bale or two), or similar 'grave-goods' horses buried with their owners, as  symbols of wealth or status - is almost non-existent.

Four of the foot figures provide the bodies for the Giant mounted figures, the copy-maker didn't bother with mounted figures.

This came with one of my larger lots, and is 'technically' the Mongol fort, but with the migrations/invasions from the East and the Slavic neighbours, it would make sense to include the 'Asian' gate-house version with Viking sets, however it has been given the 'medieval' or 'European' turret roofs on the corner towers.

The door is quite oriental too! We will have a whole post on all the forts, Giant and non-Giant through to the Accoutrements-Archie McFee / BuM Slot reissues, eventually, with all the combinations known.

Three identical wall sections are marked slightly differently from the gate, but I don't suppose there's anything particularly significant about that, the numeral ('1') is the same on all three sections and is probably just a mould-tool cavity number, or pattern-maker's mark.

Some sets also seem to have received ballista style catapults, more commonly found in the knights/Mongol sets, and pirated from Marx Miniature Masterpiece sets, where they were also issued to Vikings; attacking late medieval (from the suits of armour) forts!

The elastic band is a replacement, but is matched to the dried remains of the original, i.e. size (about a one-inch radius), type (thin, square-section) and rubber colour (neutral tan), for which jobs I have a large bag of rubber bands of every type! The Lone*Star Trebble-o-Trains car-carriers - for instance - take dentists brace-bands to hold the vehicles on!

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But is it Giant?

Half and half on the figures, everything else is Giant, I forgot to annotate the type of horse marking on these, so another post another day!

Giant Mongol Cannon

A quick look at one of the rarer items in the Giant ouvre, but it is finadable and the odd one turns up on evilBay from time to time, often with a silly price-tag but some will pay, mine came from the James Chase collection's sale at SAS Auctions in Newbury (2006?) and its unit price was almost zero . . . phew!

Although I was lucky, a thief went over the lots during viewing and took a few pieces (EKO paratroopers and a very rude 'Stag' novelty of a Hula girl), despite being reported at the time; it was several years before SAS finally got rid of him! The Paratroopers turned-up a few weeks later - via his weasel 'fence' hawking the ill-gotten gains from a Tesco's bag - at the evening toy fair in Odiham, but I'm still looking for the Hula girl!

The parts; you get four small-diameter wheel/axle combinations, rather following the pattern of the earlier (1958) Airfix railway platform baggage/mail trucks, which clip into the gun-carriage, four shells (removed on mine) attached at the hook end (left, above) and an unmarked gun-barrel which also clips onto the marked carriage.

One author waxed lyrical about the jigget on his gun, but he had it upside-down, the dragons (etched/moulded down each side of the barrel) feet point toward the ground, and the jigget is a crude elevation stop.

It's actually toothed to suggest staged elevation, but doesn't actually connect with the side-edge of the box below the trunions, which it would need to for that to work! However - at a certain point in the arc of depression - it does stop the gun pointing at the carpet, by butting against the side-face of the box!

The barrel contains a spring and piston, finger-pull firing-rod, with which you fire the cannon-balls about until you lose them all! The previously mentioned stop mechanism of the jigget/'elevation/depression ratchet' leaves the barrel firing at, err . . . Giant Mongol or Knight figure-height . . . splat!

A paler-gold one on Worthpoint, illustrating the position of the cannon-balls on a mint one. I face my barrel the other way, so the longer 'deck' can take a couple of crew, standing on it.

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But is it Giant?

Yeah . . . it's marked, init!

Giant Set No.982 Chariot Race 59¢ 1963

So to the third of my contiguously numbered 1962/3 Giant Roman sets, purchased from Mr. Opie about 16-years ago, with this one we ditch the 'Legion' for some extreme sports - vegan crown to the winner, hoofy-death with tyre-marks to the loser!

Dotted-line guy had the day off! Otherwise it's clearly part of the same line. As the Marx 'influencer' was the Ben Hur sets, it's fitting that we have a teeny-tiny clone/take on it here, with three standard Giant chariots (four horse, non-articulated chassis) and the three figures needed.

"S'mine-now, s'all mine!"

Two red's and a yellow chariot body, with contrasting coloured overlay frets with the fancy, decorative stuff. We know they are/were based on the Marx set because of that fret (which varies between clones and is the best way to ID different sources) and the weird spiky stuff on the front of the cross-bar - which is more of a stabby-spear/de-heading blade arrangement on the originals.

Horses are all the same brown batch, and marking are almost impossible to work out, but they will be genuine Giant 'Smoothies' of one sub-type or another. And we get the Marx knock-off spearman and two of Britains finest (Ulysses) as crew. Both the ex-Marx figure and the chariot wheels are the same brown as the horses - when trying to sort all these HK small-scales, exact shade is as important as markings sometimes for tying things in together!

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But is it Giant?

Sure as the other two, but I think it might be Boysie-Boy's now!

Giant Set No.981 Roman Legion Assault Group 59¢ 1963

The Romans weren't strong on cavalry, they did use them for scouting and patrolling the boarders of empire, sending signals and such like, and the books tell they were recruited from or tended to be the Aristocracy, but in fact they would have used horse-riding peoples from around the Empire for serious mounted work.

But clearly a few 'Toffs were allowed to ponce about on the edge of the battlefield, picking off stragglers or retreating enemy while staying relatively safe? Anyway - this set 'Assault group' is half and half cavalry and Infantry, and both disappoint to one degree or another!

Packaging follows the rules laid-down by set 980 (previous/older post), with the two-colour, screen-printed card folded-under and stapled to trap the rim of the blister in a sandwich of card, and the dotted line (which most developed humans in the 1960's knew to mean 'cut-here') indicating where to dig!

Blisters are the same size, which means more Infantry (about 40) that cavalry (10) as those hollow, 'Hong Kong' horses are room-occupiers with all those arms and legs and tails and stuff!

But . . . the mounted element consists of nine standard-bearers (meant to be Agamemnon in the Britains Herald universe) and one bloke with a shield so big it would shelter a family!

So to the disappointment with the foot-arms; it is that at least six are not ancient Romans (or Greco-Trojans!) but Giant medievals, and while it may be a case of making-up the numbers, that they are mixed together quite well, would suggest a deliberate act, probably applied to the/a whole batch, which, by modern terms would be a fraud, not that they worry about such things in rack-toys, then or now, but still a bit of a swizz!

We'll look at the Medievals in detail another day, but it's interesting to get them together like this as we can see two marking's running side-by-side, quite early in the short history of Giant's output, later Medievals (the smaller black & silver versions) would get the full 'P' nonsense, but here they have a cleaner GIANT over HONG KONG in a DIN font. The true Romans get a more scrappy mark , which I've previously looked at a possible history-of, on the Home Blog, here.

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But is it Giant?

Yeap! As sure as shit's found in a midden!

Giant Set No.980 Roman Legion Chariot Attack 59¢ 1963

As I've mentioned before elsewhere, this set (and two others) was (were) purchased by the inimitable James Opie exactly one month short of one-year (to the day) before I was born, which - today of all days - makes them at least 59-years old!

I've explained elsewhere why I believe these sets put Giant at forming around 1961/62 and not the '59 or earlier, of some sources, and the two-colour screen-print card is evocative of that age, whatever the date! Folding back on itself to fully enclose the rim of the blister between a card 'sandwich'.

There are dotted lines on the reverse indicating where you should go digging with knife or scissors to obtain the contents . . . now of course, I would just cut carefully round the base of the blister with a scalpel, but then I'm a vaguely intelligent adult! However, back then the 'blister pack' was a newish concept, especially in this sealed form, even Giant used staples only, through the blister, on some of their simpler/unfolded sets, while heat sealing the blister to the card was still a year or two away - requiring the added expense of blister-contoured hot-iron stamps.

Seven mounted Romans and two four-horsed, non-articulated chariots make up those contents, with two 'foot figures' as chariot crews; these plug to the floor of the chariot.

The chariots; the plug (chariot floor) and hole (figure base) attachment is clearly visible on the archer (ex-Britains pose), and the other vehicle has an ex-Marx sentry pose as it's 'rider/driver'. The chariot is based on the Marx Ben Hur Playset design, but reduced in size and greatly simplified.

Note that each chariot has matching horses, which are standard Giant 'Smoothies' (as I call them) and 99-times out of a hundred get a contrasting coloured wrap-around detailing fret, you do occasionally see them with same colour frets, but they don't look 'right'! When you find the on feebleBay they are usually hideously overpriced for what are quite common, both as Giant and as any one of several clones, to which (the clones) you can add two-horse-team sets, and articulated versions which pivot at the back of the drawbar/centre pole.

The cavalry; A very disappointing figure/pose mix here with five of the diminutive blobs which pass for a spearman, and one each of the other two figures, however the horse selection is quite good with a fair mix of black, white and two shades of brown, so swings and roundabouts I feel! Again they are pretty standard Smoothies, but which sub-variant remains unclear . . . but then I haven't listen them all yet! Looking at the brown one on the middle, they are the ['GIANT' to the left of a smaller 'HONG' over 'KONG' with no idiot 'R'-mark] type! Crew and Chariot marks can't be determined.

But they may have additional marks along the sides of the cavity? So I can't be 100% - things in blisters are harder to investigate than loose examples, but we will look at the Smoothie properly one day, with a view to boring you to death!

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But is it Giant?

Yes! Yes-yes-yes, without a shadow of a doubt, absolutely, assuredly, positively and only Giant! But - bought in the UK, in 1963, not in the US - God forgive the carbon-footprint* on these cheap, ephemeral rack-toys!

*1961? Coal or oil-fired tramp-steamer from Hong Kong to the West Coast, diesel locomotive (or Kenworth/Peterbuilt!) across the breadth of the US to New York, then another steamer to the UK, with more vehicle movements from Ipswich, Tilbury, Bristol or Liverpool? It's staggering really!

Giant and Giant-like Astronaut Spacemen - Part V - Copy Type 'C3'

So to the hardest to pin-down, they seem to have gone head-to-head with Giant, or appearing shortly after Giant, so could be earliest, but I suspect they are contemporary with but copied-from and a few months later than C1, with the C2's also copied from C1? But anyway, this post is on the C3's which are the poorest in quality really?

 

Binoculars are reduced to different sized blobs, but the 'bazooka' keeps it's shape quite well, so 'swings & roundabouts ' there! Flash is greater, and pieces of runner have been left on some of the figures. the weapon of the radio-operator ending-up looking like a fancy aerial!

I believe the paint here is 'factory', and they may have been painted to compete with the later, 1970's, bi-coloured packs of Woolbro's Space Explorer Set's? I have had more than one sample come in with the paint, same shade, and it's painted over the runner-stubs (forth from left) which you feel a modeller/war-gamer - even a young one - might have trimmed-off first?

Marking is a circular 'MADE IN HONG KONG', often double-stamped, or over-stamped, not always clear and in a more condensed font, while the bases are the largest of the four types (C2 are the smallest).

The same mark appears on at least one of many generations of Monogram GI copy, and a small-scale Blue Box piracy cow I have, so whoever this company was, they seem to have been quite busy churning out generic clones for unprincipled Western buyers, or unethical Western contractors!

While I have similar quantities of both, that could be down to coincidence, as the next image would suggest unpainted should be more numerous, but later-produced figures survive better (that's the law of attrition), so if painting came later there would be proportionally-more still around.

Old internet shot - a direct take of Giant's own set, but un-branded and in full colour, with no apparent accessories - despite the artwork - the code number would tie this in with the direct-copies of Giant Wild West sets I have in the pile.

No paint on the figures and the Giant rip-offery, would point to this effort being earlier, with later sets put-up against the Woolbro set, with paint, or 50/50 paint? This set also suggests that there are non-Giant 'Giant' space-tanks out there?

Here's another space tank . . . er! Posed with Marx's tracked Chlorine/Hydrogen/Oxygen rocket-fuel tanker, this is a re-issue I think in a white plastic which could be a dense 'ethylene polymer or a polypropylene? The figures are - of course - and like the other four sets - all softer polyethylene plastic.

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But is it Giant

These like the C1 and C2's are copies, clones, piracies . . . there's nothing Giant here, but this type is trying hardest to be Giant with the total copy of card-art and accompanying text . . . including the probably non-existent rocket-firing tanks!

Giant and Giant-like Astronaut Spacemen - Part IV - Copy Type 'C2' - Woolbro ++

So to the commonest version/variant of Giant clone, while now priced as (and usually described as-) Giant on evilBay, these used to be easy to find in under-table rummage boxes at shows and over the years I've picked up a reasonable number of them in the four main colours shown here, with silver outnumbering the other considerably - I've probably got more silver than all the others put together?

The same ten poses as the previous C1's, but smaller and less detailed, the 'bazooka' man can - again - suffer from distortion, but not always and not as consistently as the C1 fellow, this might point at the same factory for both, but is more likely down to the thickness of the sculpt at that point in both sets?

A comparison between the first-aider and the O/C, you can see they are separate poses, with the officer having a questing little-old-lady stance, while the medic is reaching more forcefully. His chest detailing is also better as he's been recut from new, rather than pantographed, same for his head/helmet.

C2's are probably copies of one of the other two sets (C1 or - less likely - C3) and show it, he doesn't though, he's altogether a fresher sculpt.

My favourites dukeing asteroid e asteroid, not the commonest, but I've found them two or three times over the years and seen them a few other times on feebleBay, so they were quite numerous sometime (probably in the Woolbro sets - see below)?

Gold turn-up in about the same quantities, while the red-chap is the only one I've got! Possibility he's a Gum-ball machine capsule prize/Christmas cracker type thing, but I suspect he's from the US 'comic offer' sets (see below), where half the contents were this colour, the other half the common silver?

I have someone to thank for the silver-troop shot - Theo van der Werden, I think? Cheers Theo - it all gets used eventually! And the gold patrol are advancing up a Cane trench!

Base mark is similar to the C1's, but much fainter and a bit smaller (still a DIN font; 'HONGKONG') than the C1's, with no dimples, holes or double-stampings, the sepia image is me trying to show you that a gloss-red figure inches from the camera-flash has the same marking! There is a gap between the two words, but it's so thin I've given them the one-word mark.

Their numerousness is down to the fact that they were carried by various people in various sets, mostly generics in independent corner stores and newsagents, but at least one branded supplier Woolbro (left), where they carried the same '445' code as the other sets in the line (Fort Cheyenne, Mobile Task Force and Roman Fortress). Age-wise they are probably newest on the left (Woolbro mid-1970's) and oldest on the right; a generic from the late 1960's.

The two later sets both come with a copy ofMattel's Major Matt Mason space walker (also nicked by Eldon's Billy Blastoff) and a rocket which I think is taken from MPC (? Someone like that!), but which has had a safety 'bulb' added to save eyes . . . it was carnage in the earlier 1960's blinded kids as far as the still-sighted could see!

On the subject of Blast Off (at least two board-games, a play-set and a book, the book titled in homage to all the other 'Blast Off's!), Five Star, Helen of Toy and others carried a set (in two sizes - 117 and 196 pieces) under the same Blast Off moniker, which I suspect probably contained these C2 figures (in the absence of other better candidates) which would have included my red figure - on one side - with yet more silver figures, but this is still conjecture? The two brands here are clearly the same outfit working from the same address.

Some sources claim Giant figures were in the sets, but without empirical evidence, and while the sets are very rare, so is my red example! As the Blast Off sets were red and silver, and given some will claim everything Hong Kong and small scale is "original Giant", I suspect the truth is that these common figures were the ones used. Many thanks to Peter Evan's for one of the comic pages.

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But is it Giant

No! The truth is that four sets of astronaut/spaceman tools were being used, probably all within months of Giant's product appearing, at around the same time (1961/2) through to about 1974 (for these C2's), although these may have been issued a little later than both the C1 and C3 clones. There is however no Giant stuff in this post.

Giant and Giant-like Astronaut Spacemen - Part III - Copy Type 'C1'

I'm not 100% convinced these were the first copies, but they might be, however they are the closes to the Giant figures so they get the nominal preeminent title in the copy-numbering, while the C2 (next post, almost certainly came from these) but I stress - as always - this is my numbering system, and means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

They are closest to Giant's in sculpting/detail as well as size, although there is a drop-off in etched surface-detail and the main difference is the addition of a tenth figure, who is not a conversion of the officer/pistol chap, but is clearly based on him, having a straighter back though and different arms/legs, he's the unit Medic with a first-aid kit - early exploits by Giant's own Space Men troops clearly threw-up a high rate of light casualties! We will look more closely at him in the next post.

The marking is a large HONG KONG, with two of the figures further possessing a distinct mould release-pin mark/dimple near the center of the base. The 'bazooka' guy is usually seriously deformed like this example, too-rapid removal from the tool is the likely cause?

This is a full-colour image! I posed them with a selection of monochromatic accessories/background sheet-materials! I have yet to identify these as having any sets/packaging, but they must have (unless they were in small unmarked bags included in Christmas crackers, crane-machines, capsules etc...?), so they should turn-up one day . . . I hope!

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But is it Giant?

No, nothing here is Giant production, nor was it issued by or branded to Giant, or produced for Giant.